Proper Door Sound Deadening and You

would papermashay(sp?) work in place of clay? some higher quality expensive clay for molding arts in the fine arts store. i bet that would work better than some $3 clay at walmart.

 
Okay excuse my newbie ignorance, but i just read thru this entire thread and was wondering if a man already had the door off of something, would it be easier just to lay it down and paint on some sort of deadening material, also, are some people recommending packing foam into the door as fill as well as the speaker egg crate? Is this to add to the rigidity of the door or what? Also, when the clay+mdf rings, are alot of y'all able to fit the speakers behind the door panel still? Thanks.

Brandon

 
Okay excuse my newbie ignorance, but i just read thru this entire thread and was wondering if a man already had the door off of something, would it be easier just to lay it down and paint on some sort of deadening material
Yes I used a few layers of SS Sludge just like this...worked great.

also, are some people recommending packing foam into the door as fill as well as the speaker egg crate? Is this to add to the rigidity of the door or what?
Just some form of closed cell foam to kill the standing waves in the door which can cause resonance....you know the what they use in the walls of a recording studio.

Also, when the clay+mdf rings, are alot of y'all able to fit the speakers behind the door panel still?
Yes because you are not putting it between the baffle and the door, just packing around it. At least I did not do it that way.

 
would papermashay(sp?) work in place of clay? some higher quality expensive clay for molding arts in the fine arts store. i bet that would work better than some $3 clay at walmart.
I think you want non-hardining clay. If it hardens, it will most likely resonate. Also if it hardened, you'd have a hell of a time getting it off.

 
Now, wish I'd have known that prior to my 120sqft order of pro..... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif (unbelievable results, by the way...}

Now to stir the pot a bit. Don't get the pitchforks and torches out just yet, I know how FNG's get treated on boards when going against the grain, but that's just the kinda guy I am. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

The gist of the original post I agree with most of, but there are a couple of points I take issue with. If I'm off here, please explain, something other than "but it works for three other guys I know, yo!", if you please.

I just finished applying damplifier pro to the entire cab of my F-150 ex-cab. Did the door skins, inner door frames, roof, blah blah. I chose not to cover the holes in the inner door frame, because it's a Ford, and I've had to change window motors on more than one, and prefer not to pull a Linda Lovelace on the 870 tactical when, not if, the motors in the 150 go out. I'll go with the need to cover the openings for improved results with the speakers, so long as everyone knows it's not completely sealed (drain holes in the bottom, gotta stay away from that standing water in the door).

Ditto on the foam behind the speaker. If you use closed cell foam you won't have to treat it, but definitely throw something behind there.

Here's my biggest issue in this. I'm glad the point of decoupling the speaker was brought up, but the reasoning behind it, and application is a bit off, I believe. Here's where I part paths in the thread. Clay between the speaker itself, and the spacer is not necessary, up to and including defeating the purpose. Decoupling the speaker is done so the speaker performs optimally, throughout it's entire range, not just to improve bass/mid-bass response. It's a by product, yes, but not the sole purpose. A seal between the door and spacer is necessary, so that the speaker doesn't resonate to the door. You're trying to isolate it. Use the ring to add mass to the basket, seal the basket to the ring solidly. A thin gasket layer between the spacer/basket and door itself will suffice. More to this in a bit...

After reading the thread, I discussed this with an engineer who happens to be a neighbor, and an audiophile, a serious one at that, after being dragged into his house so he could show me what he was getting at. He went so far as to lightly tear down a speaker cabinet to explain. The mid woofer and sub were solidly held into place tacked to 8 layer birch plywood, that's it (do a search on BagEnd loudspeakers for more info on what he's using). That said, I argued the point that the speakers were attached to wood not metal, and the "board" the woofer was attached to could be considered to be "decoupled" from the rest of the enclosure by whatever sealant. He conceded my point to argue separating the woofer yet again, using clay, from the spacer ring. Just how much will the basket of a midrange woofer resonate a piece of 3/4" MDF? Would it not resonate less than the basket itself, mass loading it (if you will) When securely attached (not with 4 screws mind you, but recessed bolts, as many as possible, clamping it, screws will only put so much clamping force)? Being a bit of a thinker, but slightly less edumacated, I went with that, and agreed. Makes total sense to me. He then suggested to me lexan, plexigalss, or acrylic, due to the fact that it's "acoustically dead", and handed me a small sheet of 1/4" to experiment with. Then suggested that I secure the "plate" I make as best I can, again using bolts, with a closed cell foam (I have a few 1/8" sheets of neoprene foam laying around) as a gasket between the new "basket/plate" and the metal of the door itself. Now, according to this (his) theory, the speaker will perform as efficiently as possible, and thinking it over, I really tend to agree with this, especially considering how you mount a subwoofer in a box.

Now, after that long winded explanation to my disagreement, here's the short version. Decoupling or isolating the speaker is strictly so the speaker can perform optimally, not simply to improve bass response (it's a byproduct), although for the more younger crowd, an easier way to get them into the habit of doing things properly (but along the way, let's tell 'em why). I will agree, MDF as a spacer ring to replace the plastic rings in factory locations is a good thing, and while clay will isolate the speaker, why risk the mess when a simple foam gasket will do the trick for a solidly mounted speaker/spacer? Not to mention, no one here knows the rate at which the clay will deteriorate over time, if it does at all.

I'm all about isolating the speaker from the door, I'm just not sure the original post is the best way to go about it. Over the next few days, I'm going to attempt to fab up acrylic plates, get photos of it being done, and hopefully post them up here to clear this mess of a post (mine) up.

If you need matches to light the torches, I'll be more than happy to supply you with them now, just bring tech, OK?

{Disclaimer: The above post contains strictly opinion, and second hand information, and is not meant to be taken as expert advice, gospel truth, or word to anyone's mother. It's subjective, and open to discussion. Use the above ramblings at your own risk.}

 
Wow, i just spent the better part of 2 hours reading http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

That was the best write up I have ever seen on just about any topic. He will deff get a little paypal help when i get the chance!

I do have a question for anyone who can help me. Ive decided on the Damplifier sound deadener but im STILL not sure how much im going to need. I plan to do 50% coverage on both front doors and most of the rear deck in a Lexus IS300. Anyone have a decent EDUCATED guess on how much i will need?

 
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