SQL build

[baldwaldo99]

Hi,

Im looking for some constructive and knowledgeable( backed by facts) advice with a build. Im a music fan with a passion for electronic, rock, and hip-hop. Sometimes I dig a little classical guitar too. My girl loves R&B, so i gotta make sure she is taken care of (really important u agree ?). I've been a club turntablist for years, and I want that sound in my car ( yeah I know). Now, that being said this is my first build and Im having a bit of an issue figuring out what to choose next . The best way I can explain it is that I want that punchy bass that you get in drum & bass (see The Nine by Bad Company UK),but still be able to make the ground shake (Hip Hop by Dead Prez), impress my girl ( At Last by Etta James) or roll with the windows down blaring Zeppelin ( Immigrant Song). This may be impossible or highly improbable. I recognize, in car audio, it is a bit of a trade off. I have 2 Jl Audio 900/5s ( both run 500@ 2ohm to the subs) pushing (6) Jl audio components in the front and (2) coaxials in the rear ( all 2ohm). I have a 10w6 @ 2 ohm in the trunk in an HO Wedge ( lol ho wedge!).  I just bought a Massive audio 8" Sumo (DVC @4 ohm) for the center deck(unopened). I keep feeling a loss in the midbass section and the lows( Put On by Jeezy). When I am in my car I want my D&B to pop. I got stuck (sorta) with a brand new Alpine 12" bassline(SVC@4ohm) , which i am wondering if maybe it won't be a bad thing. I want a presence of the lows but most of my music have quicker bass. Gonna need to add another amp for the 12 regardless.  I have a TWK 88 commanding my crossover points. Im going to take a sensus from all the advice given. So the more i get would definitely be appreciated. I but a lot of sweat into the Jl audio and I love the way it sounds so I wont get rid of them . everything else is optional. Im looking for the unicorn of great sql with some decent pressure. I like the sound all around me and I have sound deadened the trunk and doors. I appreciate the help.  Thank you

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[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

you have quite a fking mess there lmao...  You dont understand the physics of how car audio works and the concept of "less is more"  You have cancellation hell in your car right now with zero sound stage, just glob of noise in a mess of sound. 

The biggest taboos for bass thats been proven over and over by literally every enthusiast out there is you never run different size subs in your car.  You also never run different brands or models of subs in your car. You broke both of them.  Reason being? They are engineered differently, produces different sound waves and they all start fighting each other (your case since you'll have different areas of the car with different incident and reflected waves. Or they combine together to form sounding nasty and unpleasant and you literally are left with either distorted bass or negative amounts of bass.  What you really need is a proper sub setup that gets you loud enough with good bandwidth. To get that punch in the chest feeling, your overall output has to be WAAAY up there. 

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

a properly done setup will literally have an accurate representation of the sound as if you were there in the recording studio and you can see the whole performance through hearing and it'll happen right on your car's dash. If the singer walks to the left or right, you'll hear it, you'll hear each band member in their specified spot, singer dead center, guitars to the side, drummer far by the hood of your car sweeping across the dash. This is called soundstage, you arent going to achieve it with 6 pairs of components and coaxials in the rear sabotaging the sound stage. Your components are also underpowered and has no time alignment at all.   Meanwhile with great soundstage and tonality, a proper setup can be heard several football fields away and literally make people puke their lungs and intestines out if they get a full tilt demo in your car for more than 10 seconds.  Takes fewer  but higher quality drivers, more power to them and a properly done sub stage aka sub enclosure etc... If you just have them in a sealed box its not going to be anything worthwhile in performance.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Jeff isn't lying.

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

agreed, lots dont necessarily mean better

a good set of comps up front and 1 good sub can do lots.  setup and gear choice is key

 

[DRBOOM]

agreed, lots dont necessarily mean better

a good set of comps up front and 1 good sub can do lots.  setup and gear choice is key

Agree. Also the factor of sound deadening those front doors will also provide better mid-bass upfront.  A vehicle is the worst place to get good sound so its the installation that makes the magic happen.  You need good speakers up front, with decent amp to power them, and then a single or a pair of subwoofers for thump is what will make you happy. Go for dual 10's so you get better mid-bass as well.  You may have to re-do your sound system mate!

 

[baldwaldo99]

Thank you Jeffdachef for your response. I do wonder though.... if you always reply to people that come on these forums looking for help with brash remarks about what they dont know. Perhaps you are not promoting a good environment for car audio knowledge. I know that i am not an expert. That is why I asked the questions. You pointing that out is a little repetitive and a waste of time. Perhaps you are just the type of person that keeps people from finding out what they need to because dealing with another rude person online isn't their thing. Anyways.. I added all the pieces to my car after hearing it, step by step.I know what a front stage is. But go ahead keeping telling me how much of a BAD boy I am for breaking your little rules. How would you even know if my components were underpowered and out of alignment? Lol. Wouldn't you have to hear it or at least have looked up the specs of the speakers and the amps I use and know how they are wired. I see your reputation is pretty high but I can't imagine how that happened giving out advice like that. Its like a bad mechanic telling you that your alternator is bad because your lights don't come on. I have a TWK that corrects these problems if I had them. That is MY personal preference. I enjoy the feeling of having the sound all around me. Hence the rear coaxials. Without them it isn't the same. I have looked at many online forums and some say that running 2 different size subs are ok. some say it isnt a big deal depending on your configuration. But you go ahead and keep telling me how epic it is that I have broken bass taboos ( I didn't know there was such a thing but ..whatever). I do not have 6 pairs of component speakers in the front . I have 6 component speakers. And I'm sorry but if 1 sub and 1 set of comps would have done the job, I would have stopped there. Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough and I apologize because I am a noobie. I am going to sell the 12 and see about getting another 10w6 instead. Re-doing my entire system ? That seems pretty drastic.  And I have done a good bit of sound deadening so far. I do appreciate the responses though. Im sure they will begin picking apart what I say hear anyway. Have a nice day.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

What exactly do you have for front speakers and where are they located? When I read "6 JL audio components" I thought you meant 6 component sets too.

What you are looking for is more midbass, which you already know. But, midbass is locatable, meaning the frequencies are high enough that your ears can tell which direction they are coming from. In a true front sound stage, all frequencies come from the front speakers other than subbass. So when a car audio guys sees someone say they want an SQL build, they tend to think of a set of tweeters, midrange and dedicated midbass in the front sound stage.

So you have to decide if a realistic soundstage is important to you, at least in the midbass range. if it is, figure out how to put some dedicated midbass in your front doors. If its not, run some midbass drivers from your rear doors or deck, or run a subwoofer system that can bolster the midbass region.

Mixing sub sizes *can* work, but its always a pita to do right, and rarely offers big benefits over a simpler single sized sub system. Your sub(s) realistically shouldn't run more than 2 or 3 octaves, there is no realistic reason why a single sub system shouldn't be able to cover that bandwidth of frequencies. Do yourself a favor, keep your subwoofer setup as simple as possible.

Hope this helps.

 

[baldwaldo99]

Thank you for replying Audioholic. I have Jl audio c5 in the the front pillar and doors. I am looking for a bigger midbass presence and a bigger low bass presence. I wonder if the broad spectrum of music I listen to can make this a bigger problem than it should be?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Thank you for replying Audioholic. I have Jl audio c5 in the the front pillar and doors. I am looking for a bigger midbass presence and a bigger low bass presence. I wonder if the broad spectrum of music I listen to can make this a bigger problem than it should be?

Yes, different music types tend to emphasize different frequency ranges. Rap tend to be bass heavy, techno tends to be midbass heavy, for example. But in my opinion, almost all music improves drastically when you improve your midbass setup.

You might see an improvement by playing with the xover settings for the door speakers. Doors tend to have enough volume to give a component speaker a (basically) infinite baffle setup and offer much more opportunity for midbass response than would the same speaker mounted in a small cavity like a pillar. You may find that setting your door speakers to run strictly midbass improves the over all quality. Set the doors to run midbass, and pillars to run midrange, if they aren't already.

Im not familiar with those speakers so I cant comment on their midbass presence. But there's also the possibility of exchanging the door speakers for some with better midbass response, or more cone area to improve misbass output.

More 'low bass' is a function of your subwoofer system. As I said above, imo your best bet is to simplify your subwoofer to a single driver, or a single size/brand/model. Trying to mix subs is usually disaster. If it was me, id probably look at picking up another 10W6 and making/having made a custom box. IIRC those HO wedges from JL are pretty peaky and lack low end extension. Hence the "high output" designation.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

Thank you Jeffdachef for your response. I do wonder though.... if you always reply to people that come on these forums looking for help with brash remarks about what they dont know. Perhaps you are not promoting a good environment for car audio knowledge. I know that i am not an expert. That is why I asked the questions. You pointing that out is a little repetitive and a waste of time. Perhaps you are just the type of person that keeps people from finding out what they need to because dealing with another rude person online isn't their thing. Anyways.. I added all the pieces to my car after hearing it, step by step.I know what a front stage is. But go ahead keeping telling me how much of a BAD boy I am for breaking your little rules. How would you even know if my components were underpowered and out of alignment? Lol. Wouldn't you have to hear it or at least have looked up the specs of the speakers and the amps I use and know how they are wired. I see your reputation is pretty high but I can't imagine how that happened giving out advice like that. Its like a bad mechanic telling you that your alternator is bad because your lights don't come on. I have a TWK that corrects these problems if I had them. That is MY personal preference. I enjoy the feeling of having the sound all around me. Hence the rear coaxials. Without them it isn't the same. I have looked at many online forums and some say that running 2 different size subs are ok. some say it isnt a big deal depending on your configuration. But you go ahead and keep telling me how epic it is that I have broken bass taboos ( I didn't know there was such a thing but ..whatever). I do not have 6 pairs of component speakers in the front . I have 6 component speakers. And I'm sorry but if 1 sub and 1 set of comps would have done the job, I would have stopped there. Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough and I apologize because I am a noobie. I am going to sell the 12 and see about getting another 10w6 instead. Re-doing my entire system ? That seems pretty drastic.  And I have done a good bit of sound deadening so far. I do appreciate the responses though. Im sure they will begin picking apart what I say hear anyway. Have a nice day.

Smh...don't take Jeff's comments/replies personal. Don't get butthurt over what he tells you. He's actually telling you what your doing wrong. Problem is we get noobs on this forum all the time and with the most basic info they have issues with we have all dealt with in the past, by exp. What he says/tell you tho he's not wrong.

I don't think you ever mentioned HU your using. If it has network and x-overs built in, ditch the TWX andx-over settings on the amp(s) and use the HU built in x-overs to control your freq to your mids tweets. 

 

[baldwaldo99]

Thank you again. Have you ever seen a build template for different types of music? Maybe for different types of cars i.e. convertibles, suv, subcompact. Seems like someone might have put together something like this.

 

[baldwaldo99]

Smh...don't take Jeff's comments/replies personal. Don't get butthurt over what he tells you. He's actually telling you what your doing wrong. Problem is we get noobs on this forum all the time and with the most basic info they have issues with we have all dealt with in the past, by exp. What he says/tell you tho he's not wrong.

I don't think you ever mentioned HU your using. If it has network and x-overs built in, ditch the TWX andx-over settings on the amp(s) and use the HU built in x-overs to control your freq to your mids tweets. 

I am not getting butthurt at all. I have been researching online and on foot for quite some time, and dealt with all sorts. I love music and car audio. With any hobby, the more new blood you have pumping in the better for the industry. I find it sad to think that someone like me with little knowledge and a little more sensitive would become frustrated and turn away from something he/she might enjoy due to someone's rude comments. I am concerned that some people are forgetting what the nature of a forum is. Online forums were started to help people. If you dont like "noobs" then don't reply to them. Anyways, so you think the single Sumo in the rear and the second 10" is a good idea or no? should i get an JL 8 in the rear deck and ditch the Sumo ?  And the TWK allows me to make more detailed presets than my HU can provide ( Kenwood Excelon DDX 395).

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Thank you Jeffdachef for your response. I do wonder though.... if you always reply to people that come on these forums looking for help with brash remarks about what they dont know. Perhaps you are not promoting a good environment for car audio knowledge. I know that i am not an expert. That is why I asked the questions. You pointing that out is a little repetitive and a waste of time. Perhaps you are just the type of person that keeps people from finding out what they need to because dealing with another rude person online isn't their thing. Anyways.. I added all the pieces to my car after hearing it, step by step.I know what a front stage is. But go ahead keeping telling me how much of a BAD boy I am for breaking your little rules. How would you even know if my components were underpowered and out of alignment? Lol. Wouldn't you have to hear it or at least have looked up the specs of the speakers and the amps I use and know how they are wired. I see your reputation is pretty high but I can't imagine how that happened giving out advice like that. Its like a bad mechanic telling you that your alternator is bad because your lights don't come on. I have a TWK that corrects these problems if I had them. That is MY personal preference. I enjoy the feeling of having the sound all around me. Hence the rear coaxials. Without them it isn't the same. I have looked at many online forums and some say that running 2 different size subs are ok. some say it isnt a big deal depending on your configuration. But you go ahead and keep telling me how epic it is that I have broken bass taboos ( I didn't know there was such a thing but ..whatever). I do not have 6 pairs of component speakers in the front . I have 6 component speakers. And I'm sorry but if 1 sub and 1 set of comps would have done the job, I would have stopped there. Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough and I apologize because I am a noobie. I am going to sell the 12 and see about getting another 10w6 instead. Re-doing my entire system ? That seems pretty drastic. And I have done a good bit of sound deadening so far. I do appreciate the responses though. Im sure they will begin picking apart what I say hear anyway. Have a nice day.

Instead of crying, why don't you take his advice and ask questions in areas you don't understand? People are so ******* soft these days. Is this the first time you've used a forum?

 

[Jsoundz24]

Yes people are way too soft nowadays he doesn't know how a forum works cause he has every excuse rather then shutting up and taking the advice that HE asked for lmao