New subwoofer stage install, whats missing?

[poltergeist187]

Greetings,

First subwoofer install in a long time. Ive got what I assume to be decent gear, but yet I feel a lack of both SQ and SPL... Have I missed something? Wrong box, wrong amp, wrong...?????

98 accord 4dr

Pioneer entry level deck (2V pre)

JL HD750/1 amp

2 x JL 12w6v3 in their prefab box (cs212g-w6v3)

4awg wire ran

gain tuned with a DMM with 50 cycle test tone cd to JL spec

comparison is that originally with the new JL amp I was running a single old kicker L5 in a kicker ported box that sounded ok, but I was not impressed. Thinking I couldnt go wrong with JL i sprang for that box above mentioned (cs212g-w6v3)... well output is extremely similar if not slightly lower at the frequency where the ported box would "hit".

so question, do i need a larger amp? or do I need a fancy box like a 4th order bandpass etc?

any help or opinion is appreciated

thanks

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[Brian21699]

Build them a proper ported box, and then if they don't like that, buy a bigger amp. W6s should be ok unless you're trying to pressurize a bus.

 

[poltergeist187]

Build them a proper ported box, and then if they don't like that, buy a bigger amp. W6s should be ok unless you're trying to pressurize a bus.

right on, appreciate the response. Anybody know of a reputable box builder in the Bay Area? or perhaps a designer on the forum? I found a private box builder in the area, but he seems to be a builder and not a designer? I really like the three chamber 4th order bandpass box where the woofers face each other, any info on that design?

and... if ... I went with a bigger amp what would be a good recommendation, Id like to keep it as efficient as possible. I can run 1/0 thru out but really dont want to get into alternator swapping etc...

I have been out of the scene for a long time and it seems like PPI, SoundStream, Phoenix Gold, Orion, etc are very different companies then they used to be, thats why i went with a JL amp, figured Id pay a premium, but would not get crap...

 

[Brian21699]

[quote name='poltergeist187']right on, appreciate the response. Anybody know of a reputable box builder in the Bay Area? or perhaps a designer on the forum? I found a private box builder in the area, but he seems to be a builder and not a designer? I really like the three chamber 4th order bandpass box where the woofers face each other, any info on that design?

and... if ... I went with a bigger amp what would be a good recommendation, Id like to keep it as efficient as possible. I can run 1/0 thru out but really dont want to get into alternator swapping etc...

I have been out of the scene for a long time and it seems like PPI, SoundStream, Phoenix Gold, Orion, etc are very different companies then they used to be, thats why i went with a JL amp, figured Id pay a premium, but would not get crap...[/QUOTE]

Sundown SAZ amps are good. And @CSCStang does amazing work. Also check out Crescendo, DD, and DC.

 

[jwark]

right on, appreciate the response. Anybody know of a reputable box builder in the Bay Area? or perhaps a designer on the forum? I found a private box builder in the area, but he seems to be a builder and not a designer? I really like the three chamber 4th order bandpass box where the woofers face each other, any info on that design?
and... if ... I went with a bigger amp what would be a good recommendation, Id like to keep it as efficient as possible. I can run 1/0 thru out but really dont want to get into alternator swapping etc...

I have been out of the scene for a long time and it seems like PPI, SoundStream, Phoenix Gold, Orion, etc are very different companies then they used to be, thats why i went with a JL amp, figured Id pay a premium, but would not get crap...

CSCStang, he's awesome. He built me one. A lot of people recommend him here.

 

[hone]

@CSCStang did a box for my 10w6v3 that gets down. Really brought the woofer to life. A properly built ported box will really increase the output and make better use of the power on hand. That enclosure is tiny for 2 12s.
I've got the 12" version now and he is building me a box for that as well. Dude ships from So Cal and prices are great.

Here is the 12 w6v3 box he just built for me. He sent me these pics during the build, it'll ship out tomorrow.

Before the stain, LEDs on

After stain, LEDs off.

I'm in the east bay if you'd like to demo a single 10" in a proper ported box or the 12" in a week or two.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

where is the box/sub facing?

 

[hone]

I always wondered what would be the best placement for one of the enclosures he has.

This pic makes the airspace look really small.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Actually just saw the box. That design is a disaster. Definitely hit up cscstang for a box built and shipped to you.

 

[poltergeist187]

the box is very strange. they are opposing each other, cone out. I have the box oriented so the cones face the sides of the car. figured front to back would get real weird with time alignment.

Ive tried slammed against the very rear of the trunk and also currently have the box as close to the back seat as possible. no real difference between the two.

 

[poltergeist187]

Initially the box looked like a mess to me too, but i said to myself, JL made it to show case their w6s, it must be somehow secretly good...

well if i judged the drivers strictly by the sound output of the whole system (box and drivers) I would say JL is garbage, well cuz basically thats what it sounds like. kinda hurt after dropping the coin and removing a single kicker L5 expecting a BIG improvement. it was a lateral move at best.

thank goodness for this forum and hopefully CSCStang

 

[hone]

Don't worry man. You might be so impressed with 1 in a proper box that you could sell one of the W6s and get some money back in your pocket.

Or if you bought it within a reasonable time from a local dealer they may take it back if you're unhappy. Then you can just buy the drivers by themselves for a nice savings and put that down on the new box.

Just wait until we meet up for a test bump. We could even drop the box in your trunk and give it a go.

 

[r0llinlacs 10+ year member]

I would agree with your suspicion that you need more power. You really only have enough power for one of those subs. An HD1200/1 would be perfect for your setup. Since you're SQ minded, I wouldn't go with any other brand than JL and the HD amps sound amazing, that's what I would stick with if you can afford it. An HD1200/1 or a JL 1200/1v3 slash series would be a perfect match and you won't lose out on any SQ. If you want my personal opinion, I think the slash series sounds very slightly better than the HD series, only because the HD series is digital, and while JL is doing digital best, I haven't liked the sound of any digital amp I've come across, but, if space is a concern, they are much smaller and the JL HD series tries its damnedest to not sacrifice SQ for space.

As far as a box, you can't go wrong there. Unless you really like the sound of a sealed box (personally I don't like the sound of sealed W-6's) or you don't have the space, I see no reason why you shouldn't get a custom box.

Also, it's really hard to tell because of the enclosure, but are those the new W-6 with the rubber surround? If so, just another opinion, but I didn't like the sound of the new W-6's, I thought they were too airy and it just seems like the output doesn't match the excursion and they were really loose sounding compared to the older ones, and this was in the OEM JL ported box even. I'm not sure what they did but I like the old ones better. So, if they are the new ones, I would probably lean towards a custom box because it'll be a lot cheaper than a new HD or slash amp, but if they're the old ones and you like sealed boxes I'd get an amp.

 

[poltergeist187]

Nice. that is all good info and appreciated. I have a feeling i will be taking the drivers out of this box. especially since i have a mystery on my hands. the box's terminal is labeled "2ohm final impedance" the box is supposed to be a 4ohm final. and mathematically a 2ohm final is not possible with twin dual 4ohm coils. so i dont even know what the heck i have... i guess they have to be dual 8ohm coils which JL doesnt seem to make or ....?

planning to give them a call first thing in the morning and get to the bottom of this....

BTW dmm reads 1.3ohm (indicative of a 2ohm nominal impedance (i think))

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Nice. that is all good info and appreciated. I have a feeling i will be taking the drivers out of this box. especially since i have a mystery on my hands. the box's terminal is labeled "2ohm final impedance" the box is supposed to be a 4ohm final. and mathematically a 2ohm final is not possible with twin dual 4ohm coils. so i dont even know what the heck i have... i guess they have to be dual 8ohm coils which JL doesnt seem to make or ....?
planning to give them a call first thing in the morning and get to the bottom of this....

BTW dmm reads 1.3ohm (indicative of a 2ohm nominal impedance (i think))

pretty sure they only make them in D4s you are currently wired parallel to 1 ohm, it will be slightly high because of resistances along the path of travel or your DMMs resistance.

Best thing to max out the potential of the subs is to get a custom ported box and put a 750.1 on each of them running at 2 ohms on each amp.

JL's premade boxes are usually junk. They glam it up and sell it for an arm and a leg when you can get better performance for much less. Those boxes are geared for cramming in tight spaces/space saving, not optimal sound quality.

Definitly see if you can get a refund on the box. Hell if you can refund the whole amount, you can get something close to SQ performance but can get much louder for a lot less. A LOT LESS

here's what a recent new member achieved with a single 160 dollar sub on a tight budget.



here's the thread lol its loooong http://www.caraudio.com/forums/general-discussion/616246-im-putting-together-complete-system-14.html#post8708065