pretty sad

[05trailblazer 10+ year member]

all

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

well the cadence and dd have a bigger,stronger motor on there 8s than a $400 12" kicker sub

 

[pro-rabbit 5,000+ posts]

well the cadence and dd have a bigger,stronger motor on there 8s than a $400 12" kicker sub

I want to say something...but I have no idea how to "defend" kicker on that one..... um let me think more about it haha.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

well the cadence and dd have a bigger,stronger motor on there 8s than a $400 12" kicker sub

Take a look at a Stroker lately?

 

[wenn_du_weinst 10+ year member]

bl = does not equal motor strength.

also the l7 doesn't fail at rms like the sa does. You need to run double rms on the sa.

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

^ you are not understanding...

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

havent seen a newer stroker inperson ,the older one yea it was very strong just not alot of throw...

 

[huricaine 10+ year member]

Yea the oldschool stroker is not a point. It had short throw which increases motor force and controll(lowers Q) compared to a longer stroke.

Btw: Motor force is the most important, hate to break it to the people who repeat lines like: if only motor force was everything. If you have designed and built subs then you know that it's actually difficult to stay within a low enough Q. Shooting for a low Q is always the thing to have in mind. Having a weak motor will make this much more difficult and will require compromises such as less xmax, higher FS from a looser suspension and or lighter cone(Mechanical efficiency lowers the Q).

If I had a sub with a Qts of .28 and i wanted to lower the FS then i could add some mass to it and still stay within a low enough Q. You could also tighten the suspension for mechanical power handling. What if you wanted both? You would have to tightn the suspension and also add some mass to make sure the Fs isn't too high.

Now, if you have a weaker motor, to achieve an average Q like of around .4, your parts are going to be different then a sub that has a larger motor force and similar parameters. The larger motor force can have a lower Q, and or stiffer suspension and lower Fs compared to the weaker sub that had less mechanical power handling, and and or a higher Fs.

This is why lower line subs with smaller motors are usually geared towards sealed boxes, because to get a decently low Fs and power handling the Q will be on the high side because the motor isn't strong enough keep it low while having the mass and stiffness it does.

 

[J31Rob 5,000+ posts]

bl = does not equal motor strength. also the l7 doesn't fail at rms like the sa does. You need to run double rms on the sa.

That's just silly. You of all people know that the way a woofer handles power is defined by the application.

 

---------- Post added at 04:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

 

I HAVE A QUAD STACK NEO MOTOR THAT'S 100LBS. I AM GOD. WJLKERH QERLIUQBK!!!!! MOTOR FORCE!!!! :fuckyeah:

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

bl = does not equal motor strength. also the l7 doesn't fail at rms like the sa does. You need to run double rms on the sa.

You know there are 100s and 100s of people running the SA on 600 RMS and loving them, right ? =P

 

[JL Audio 5,000+ posts]

You know there are 100s and 100s of people running the SA on 600 RMS and loving them, right ? =P

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/slap.gif.87520e8ca8e90076ac30e777c0de5331.gif

bring back the sae-1000d. that is all. ( no I don't want to hear about the sax/z whatever 1000d. I like the look of the oldie amp lol.

sigh. good thread here.

 

[truckramrod 10+ year member]

E=sundownz;7916111]You know there are 100s and 100s of people running the SA on 600 RMS and loving them, right ? =P

Its a real shame that you make a sub that can handle more than rms...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

back to the drawing board.

As far as kicker. I haven't heard too many setups..Some sounded good but install and tuning is key. But you prolly won't see me running kicker subs due to the price to performance ratio.

 

[globalminds_ent 10+ year member]

I don't like how kickers sound they are loud but that's all just loud they sound like some good PA system subs to me...... But I've only heard em sealed. U heard subs at like the club or like a Gucci mane concert? That's what they reminded me of,,, sealed.. Maybe its the type of cone they use or something. Idk but I'm not gonna lie I like how mofos sound, better than them kickers., I like how some really cheap lanzar max subs sound, better than those kickers. But kickers do get the job done, I'm just not crazy about how they get the job done

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

Yea the oldschool stroker is not a point. It had short throw which increases motor force and controll(lowers Q) compared to a longer stroke.

Short stroke does not lower Qts just as high stroke does not always mean low motor force with high Qts.

Btw: Motor force is the most important, hate to break it to the people who repeat lines like: if only motor force was everything. If you have designed and built subs then you know that it's actually difficult to stay within a low enough Q. Shooting for a low Q is always the thing to have in mind. Having a weak motor will make this much more difficult and will require compromises such as less xmax, higher FS from a looser suspension and or lighter cone(Mechanical efficiency lowers the Q).

To those of you looking at the post I am quoting above, please do not look at it as everything contained in the paragraph above is false if you are looking for information on car audio subwoofers. Jim is right - motor force is not the most important thing to look at! With small signal parameters high BL can be achieved in multiple ways. However, a very strong motor is not desired and/or wanted depending on the application. For instance, you can easily over-motor a driver to be used in sealed applications. The result will be a driver that has an F3 of 65 Hz in the target size enclosure...aka it won't play low. Will it be loud at 70 or 80 Hz? It could, but it will also have such anemic bottom end that almost 100% of customers will hate it.

And a more compliant (or "looser") suspension will result in a lower Fs.

If I had a sub with a Qts of .28 and i wanted to lower the FS then i could add some mass to it and still stay within a low enough Q. You could also tighten the suspension for mechanical power handling. What if you wanted both? You would have to tightn the suspension and also add some mass to make sure the Fs isn't too high.

"Tighten"ing the suspension, or making it less compliant, will change the Qt more than any effects of adding mass will have on the suspension. That is, of course, unless you're talking about increasing the moving mass by 2x with a compliant suspension to begin with [note that is a LOT of mass - as in going from an Mms of 250g to 500g!]. Everything is within limits, not definite.

Now, if you have a weaker motor, to achieve an average Q like of around .4, your parts are going to be different then a sub that has a larger motor force and similar parameters. The larger motor force can have a lower Q, and or stiffer suspension and lower Fs compared to the weaker sub that had less mechanical power handling, and and or a higher Fs.

Once again this is wrong.

This is why lower line subs with smaller motors are usually geared towards sealed boxes, because to get a decently low Fs and power handling the Q will be on the high side because the motor isn't strong enough keep it low while having the mass and stiffness it does.

Loudspeaker design is all about compromises. And have you ever seen a neo motor? They are tiny in comparison yet still offer very solid motor force. The size of a motor is NOT an indicator of how well the driver will perform in every application. Know and understand what you want and go from there. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/slap.gif.87520e8ca8e90076ac30e777c0de5331.gif
bring back the sae-1000d. that is all. ( no I don't want to hear about the sax/z whatever 1000d. I like the look of the oldie amp lol.

sigh. good thread here.

Sorry, Korean buildhouses don't backstep their production. Sundown, Incriminator, or any other Korean distributor just gets what the buildhouses pump out. They don't get a choice on what they sell you, other than getting a custom made logo on the amp and a users manual with bad english.