Sound deadening as well. Two important things to consider before dropping that kind of cash to avoid major regret.Withouts proper sound processing, your whole 4 grand system will just sound like a 500 dollar system just saying. Yes it makes that much of a difference.
Music is recorded in 2.1 not 4.1 or 5.1. rear speakers and center channel dont really add any SQ, it actually screws everything up unless you have a unit that can upmix the signal like a jbl MS8 but those are rare. You will be louder but thats it, you lose sound stage. DSP tuned right turns your system from just noise and music to being able to see a live performance in your car, from every instrument to the singer walking back and forth, you see everything via sound. Your system is not just good, it can even get loud, and you can listen to it extremely loud and it wont fatigue your ears at all, its smooth as butter. Id say the sound processing and tuning is more important than every other piece in your setup hands down. Nothing else comes close assuming we are dealing with at least below average gear(D+) and up and not bottom of the barrel garbage.Thanks Jeff, I've been building basic crap systems for 25 years so I have a basic understanding, I've just never used (cause I was too poor) any sound processors so I just dont know the value.
What would you recommend and is there value in doing center channel or anything like an 8 channel system or is it more an overkill that isn't needed?
It's most likely not a blowhard post. Car audio is expensive if done right, nothing wrong with having a proper budget (i've seen so many $2k builds that are skimping hard). Considering alot of people drop 1000 dollars just in electrical alone I don't think he's trying to brag about money, this isn't a cheap hobbyWhile this is a bit of a blowhard post ill play along...
Especially since this isn't a cheap hobby. I'm working on a build right now and sound proofing + electrical i'm already in near 30% of OPs budget and thats just prepping the carNothing wrong with a successful person who is into audio.
Agreed. Would at least do Butyl deadener with closed cell foam as a 2nd layer.Sound deadening as well. Two important things to consider before dropping that kind of cash to avoid major regret.
Music is recorded in 2.1 not 4.1 or 5.1. rear speakers and center channel dont really add any SQ, it actually screws everything up unless you have a unit that can upmix the signal like a jbl MS8 but those are rare. You will be louder but thats it, you lose sound stage. DSP tuned right turns your system from just noise and music to being able to see a live performance in your car, from every instrument to the singer walking back and forth, you see everything via sound. Your system is not just good, it can even get loud, and you can listen to it extremely loud and it wont fatigue your ears at all, its smooth as butter. Id say the sound processing and tuning is more important than every other piece in your setup hands down. Nothing else comes close assuming we are dealing with at least below average gear(D+) and up and not bottom of the barrel garbage.
So Im planning to install myself but I would like a good audio guy to tune it for me. I can install the hardware and sound deadening and wiring with no issue. But I have no clue about tuning. So some cost will go to install, but I have plenty of buffer with cost. I just want a dream clean crisp sounding system.Are you going to install it all or should install cost be factored into budget?
The only processor that upmixes into a dolby 5.1/7.1 properly is the JBL MS8 which is discontinued. All other sound processors just give you 8 channels to work with but still output 2.1 stereo audio straight from the source. There is no actual surround at all. You are just having multiple speakers in different locations outputting 2.1 stereo. For reference thats all channel stereo mode in home audio. You also need to leave behind all knowledge of home audio and keep it out of car audio, these are two different beasts with different purposes.So that adds to my question about processing. Normal audio is 2.1, but wouldn't a processor allow for a real surround sound like my home stereo? Like mids and high come from front, mids and lows from rear. Maybe one guitar coming from right and another from the left? Im completely new to processing so I definitely want to include it.
What would you recommend for a decent processor? I've looked at the audio control stuff, just not sure which would work best.
The only processor that upmixes into a dolby 5.1/7.1 properly is the JBL MS8 which is discontinued. All other sound processors just give you 8 channels to work with but still output 2.1 stereo audio straight from the source. There is no actual surround at all. You are just having multiple speakers in different locations outputting 2.1 stereo. For reference thats all channel stereo mode in home audio. You also need to leave behind all knowledge of home audio and keep it out of car audio, these are two different beasts with different purposes.
What the processor is for is to achieve proper blend between sub, midbass, midrange, and tweeter by splitting the signal up via crossovers that you can adjust specified frequencies each driver takes care of through the software.This is needed because you are in a chaotic acoustical environment with reflections this helps tame peaks and dips which give a smooth response. So each driver takes care of its specified range of frequencies. The DSP also time corrects each driver so that all sounds waves hit your ears at the same time. Then has a 31 band parametric EQ to further fine tune everything for perfect SQ.
Any kind of rear speakers would destroy the soundstage completely by pulling the stage from the front of the dash back to the driver seat and messes up instrument separation and overall frequency response due to different angles, reflections, drivers etc ... If you want dream SQ, get rid of the idea of running rears completely.
As for a dsp, helix and alpine is top dog. For budget (but still great dsp, the dayton dsp 408 and bluetooth dongle is around 180 and does the job just fine. You can Download the app now and play around with it see if you like the interface. Most other dsps need a laptop to tune.
Box design makes a bigger difference. If you are in a truck and doing under the seat make sure you have subs forward and port to the side door. Dont go sealed or else you wont get any decent result. You can get loud on 250 watts still if the design is right. If the design is wrong, you wont get loud even with 5000 watts.Thanks Jeff,
That is some great info. So you said not to run rear speakers. I assume that doesn't include subs. The system is going into a 2021 f150 supercrew.
My last question is about subs. I was thinking of three or four 8s vs two 10s but my question is this. What rms power level should I aim for to get some really good bass? My goal was maybe a Kicker or JL Audio amp 2000w rms mono. The issue Im seeing is most 8" subs are only rated to 250w rms. So would I really get some killer bass with three 8s and a 1000w rms amp? Just seems a lot less power. But I do remember back in the 1990s with my 250w Rockford Fosgate amp used to give some good bass. So I dont know.
Does rms watts really make all the difference for how loud the system is?
Withouts proper sound processing, your whole 4 grand system will just sound like a 500 dollar system just saying. Yes it makes that much of a difference.