About to scrap my new system... Need help

[dieseldub02]

whats up, just joined the forum to gain some insight and opinions on the system that i installed in my golf about 8 months ago.

2002 golf

pioneer avh-5700bhs just installed (had an alpine cda-9827 that sounded amazing but was lacking features)

Infinity Kappa 60.9 components installed up front (x-over at 80-100htz, sounds the same)

infinity reference components installed in rear

Hifonics brutus BRX640.4

doors have been sound deadend with stinger road kill

Subwoofer stage has always sounded great so ill leave that out

14 gauge ofc wire was used for all speakers

0 gauge power wire used throughout

Kicker rca's

everything is wired in phase (checked multiple times over the past months)

basically, i spent a lot of time piecing parts together to build this system on the cheap (around $800 in total not including the new head unit) and i am very disappointed with how it sounds. The mids and highs sound very flat with little to no mid bass. I feel like the music lacks detail, especially on acoustic type tracks. In general, i have a hard time hearing the lyrics. I can hear them singing but i really have to pay attention to understand what they are saying. Ive taken my car in to a few reputable shops and everyone says the system sounds fine and that its as good as its going to get until i add a digital sound processor. Ive had them try to tune the stereo but it did not make much difference since my settings were pretty spot on to begin with.

I know its tough to really give any advice without hearing it, but is there anything i am overlooking? any suggestions on what i should look into? i was thinking the hifonics amp could be a weak spot but i dont have any other equipment to swap in to see if it makes a difference.

am i asking too much from this system? I am at my wits end with this system and was considering ripping it out and having a shop install all rockford fosgate products. (its what i like, please do not judge, i know there are lots of just as good products for cheaper.)

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

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[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

the hifonics 4 channel will be the weakspot of the system atm. Play around with tuning yourself though.

 

[fly_marlin]

whats up, just joined the forum to gain some insight and opinions on the system that i installed in my golf about 8 months ago.
2002 golf

pioneer avh-5700bhs just installed (had an alpine cda-9827 that sounded amazing but was lacking features)

Infinity Kappa 60.9 components installed up front (x-over at 80-100htz, sounds the same)

infinity reference components installed in rear

Hifonics brutus BRX640.4

doors have been sound deadend with stinger road kill

Subwoofer stage has always sounded great so ill leave that out

14 gauge ofc wire was used for all speakers

0 gauge power wire used throughout

Kicker rca's

everything is wired in phase (checked multiple times over the past months)

basically, i spent a lot of time piecing parts together to build this system on the cheap (around $800 in total not including the new head unit) and i am very disappointed with how it sounds. The mids and highs sound very flat with little to no mid bass. I feel like the music lacks detail, especially on acoustic type tracks. In general, i have a hard time hearing the lyrics. I can hear them singing but i really have to pay attention to understand what they are saying. Ive taken my car in to a few reputable shops and everyone says the system sounds fine and that its as good as its going to get until i add a digital sound processor. Ive had them try to tune the stereo but it did not make much difference since my settings were pretty spot on to begin with.

I know its tough to really give any advice without hearing it, but is there anything i am overlooking? any suggestions on what i should look into? i was thinking the hifonics amp could be a weak spot but i dont have any other equipment to swap in to see if it makes a difference.

am i asking too much from this system? I am at my wits end with this system and was considering ripping it out and having a shop install all rockford fosgate products. (its what i like, please do not judge, i know there are lots of just as good products for cheaper.)

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Sorry to hear it doesn't sound the way you wanted to, it can be pretty frustrating. There's a lot you can do with that deck, but first thing to do is check that you're not double crossing your speakers. Are you using the x-overs on the deck or the amp? Remember, you don't want to use both. Also, that deck is fairly sophisticated and can do some nice adjustments. Can you check to see if any features such as loudness or sound retriever are on? Also, maybe some of the time alignment stuff is off, if you're even using that? Additionally, if you're still unhappy with it, you can buy the optional mic for the deck and have it auto-EQ it for you.

If all that fails, you may want to look into a better amp. Do address the above first though.

 

[brian84corvette 10+ year member]

i feel the same way sometimes with my system - and yes to the guy who said check crossover settings on the amps and headunits - if your using 12db on the amp an using 12db on the headunit - then that slope is now 24db cut per octave wich is realley steep and could be causing unwanted stuff.

for fun - get a 3.5mm phone jack cord that goes to rca left and right. plug in your i phone and play music at no more than 75% volume to avoid distortion and plug in to your amp rca for signal ( to effectivly bypass the headunit all together ) then mess with the tuning on your amp and see if it "clears up" at all.

one of my favorite systems ive had to date was running an i pod to a small cadence 3 way crossover for high / mid / bass rca out and i used a toggle switch on the dash to power on the remote turn on wires for the amps and crossover. no headunit at all in this system it was caveman simple - but thats all it needed to sound realley great.

now i have a pioneer 80prs and i dont even understand half of what it does yet - im still learning its functions and how to use it to its full potential verry frustrating in a big system build as ill get one thing dialed in - and the others still sound like heck

 

[dieseldub02]

Sorry to hear it doesn't sound the way you wanted to, it can be pretty frustrating. There's a lot you can do with that deck, but first thing to do is check that you're not double crossing your speakers. Are you using the x-overs on the deck or the amp? Remember, you don't want to use both. Also, that deck is fairly sophisticated and can do some nice adjustments. Can you check to see if any features such as loudness or sound retriever are on? Also, maybe some of the time alignment stuff is off, if you're even using that? Additionally, if you're still unhappy with it, you can buy the optional mic for the deck and have it auto-EQ it for you.
If all that fails, you may want to look into a better amp. Do address the above first though.

I originally picked this particular head unit because it offered a semi active set up and i thought i would be able to go with that instead of an expensive sound processor. When i originally installed the headunit, i was using the crossovers on both the amp and the headunit but it was taking too much out of the music so i turned off the active feature and let the amps do the work. I have messed around with time alignment and the listening position features but i think it sounds better with them turned off. I did like how the listening position option made it sound like the speakers and sound output were coming from in front of me as opposed to coming from the sides but the speakers sounded slightly muddy with the listening position on?? very strange. The EQ on is set to flat, audio shop tried the auto eq feature and it made it sound worse.

I can get my hands on a rockford fosgate power t400-4 for under $200, ill swap out amps and see if it helps? or should i just fork out $500 for an audison/rf 3sixty.3 sound processor to make up for the amp? or is that just covering up the problem... anyone in the sacramento area care to take a listen?

 

[dieseldub02]

i feel the same way sometimes with my system - and yes to the guy who said check crossover settings on the amps and headunits - if your using 12db on the amp an using 12db on the headunit - then that slope is now 24db cut per octave wich is realley steep and could be causing unwanted stuff.
for fun - get a 3.5mm phone jack cord that goes to rca left and right. plug in your i phone and play music at no more than 75% volume to avoid distortion and plug in to your amp rca for signal ( to effectivly bypass the headunit all together ) then mess with the tuning on your amp and see if it "clears up" at all.

one of my favorite systems ive had to date was running an i pod to a small cadence 3 way crossover for high / mid / bass rca out and i used a toggle switch on the dash to power on the remote turn on wires for the amps and crossover. no headunit at all in this system it was caveman simple - but thats all it needed to sound realley great.

now i have a pioneer 80prs and i dont even understand half of what it does yet - im still learning its functions and how to use it to its full potential verry frustrating in a big system build as ill get one thing dialed in - and the others still sound like heck

care to trade? ill give you my whole system for your ipod and crossover haha. Sometimes simple things are better i guess.

 

[dieseldub02]

the hifonics 4 channel will be the weakspot of the system atm. Play around with tuning yourself though.

thank you for the input, I have a new amp in mind already. my fingers are crossed

 

[fly_marlin]

thank you for the input, I have a new amp in mind already. my fingers are crossed

Have you tried skipping the amp x-overs and just using the ones on the deck? Worth a try. The deck is a higher tier product than the amp. You can get the RF 360.3 and the RF for $500? Doubt you need the 360 with this deck for what you want to do. Also, not a fan of infinity speakers - you may just not like the detail/imaging they have to offer and also, different speakers may perform differently from car to car.

Try deck x-overs first, put amp into full mode or max out all of its x-overs. Do the free stuff first, you'll always have a chance to spend the money later.

 

[dieseldub02]

Have you tried skipping the amp x-overs and just using the ones on the deck? Worth a try. The deck is a higher tier product than the amp. You can get the RF 360.3 and the RF for $500? Doubt you need the 360 with this deck for what you want to do. Also, not a fan of infinity speakers - you may just not like the detail/imaging they have to offer and also, different speakers may perform differently from car to car.
Try deck x-overs first, put amp into full mode or max out all of its x-overs. Do the free stuff first, you'll always have a chance to spend the money later.

I meant i can get the amp for under $200 locally and the 3sixty processor is around $500 used online, sorry for the confusion. After purchasing the speakers, i noticed a lot of people did not like the infinitys but since i had good look with them in the past, i decided to give their kappa components a shot. I have not tried using the headunit only for the crossovers, i wasnt sure how to "bypass" the amps, going to do that right this minute. thank you for the info, very helpful.

 

[fly_marlin]

I meant i can get the amp for under $200 locally and the 3sixty processor is around $500 used online, sorry for the confusion. After purchasing the speakers, i noticed a lot of people did not like the infinitys but since i had good look with them in the past, i decided to give their kappa components a shot. I have not tried using the headunit only for the crossovers, i wasnt sure how to "bypass" the amps, going to do that right this minute. thank you for the info, very helpful.

So I don't think the amp has a "full" option, so you'll want to set the HPF to the lowest setting available.

 

[fly_marlin]

So I don't think the amp has a "full" option, so you'll want to set the HPF to the lowest setting available.

Scratch that, it does have "full" - so set it to that. Let us know the outcome. Just as a guidance, you'll hear more of a difference with "crappy" speakers than you ever will with a "crappy" amp.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Might could also be just poor factory locations. Got pics of where the fronts are in the car? Infinity components/coaxials that I've ever used are plenty loud and clear at 50W so I doubt a new amp is your solution.

My guess is poor locations or something else you've overlooked with crossover or similar.

 

[dieseldub02]

Scratch that, it does have "full" - so set it to that. Let us know the outcome. Just as a guidance, you'll hear more of a difference with "crappy" speakers than you ever will with a "crappy" amp.

You are the man! made a huge huge difference, i am super surprised to be honest and now it actually sounds like a halfway legit system. i bottomed out the low pass the high pass on the amp and set it to full range and crossed everything over at 80 on the head unit. much more clear and crisp and i actually have mid bass now, going to have to add some more sound deadening since there is a slight reverb/vibration when the music is cranked up. Super happy at this point though. Still really temped to swap out that hifonics for a rockford. cant believe bypassing the amp made that big of a difference.

 

[fly_marlin]

You are the man! made a huge huge difference, i am super surprised to be honest and now it actually sounds like a halfway legit system. i bottomed out the low pass the high pass on the amp and set it to full range and crossed everything over at 80 on the head unit. much more clear and crisp and i actually have mid bass now, going to have to add some more sound deadening since there is a slight reverb/vibration when the music is cranked up. Super happy at this point though. Still really temped to swap out that hifonics for a rockford. cant believe bypassing the amp made that big of a difference.

Few notes. Once you set the amp x-over to full, it doesn't matter what HPF or LPF dials are set to. Now go back and set the HPF on the deck to 120, 80 is a bit too low. If you're using 12db slopes, you don't want to have the same x-over point for the LPF and HPF. 80 is fine for LPF, but set the HPF to 120 (or whatever the closest number that it lets you do). It will sound clearer and should take care of that unwanted reverberation as the speakers won't be digging so low.

 

[dieseldub02]

Might could also be just poor factory locations. Got pics of where the fronts are in the car? Infinity components/coaxials that I've ever used are plenty loud and clear at 50W so I doubt a new amp is your solution.
My guess is poor locations or something else you've overlooked with crossover or similar.

from everything ive read, everyone just uses the stock locations for the speakers and tweeters. i dont have any pics off hand to show you but a simple google search of a mk4 golf will bring up plenty of info if you were curious. Its not a terrible spot for the tweeters to but its not the best. The tweeters for this particular set of kappas are absolutely HUGE. ive never seen tweeters this big for this level of speaker, i had to cut the tweeter housing thickness in half to get them to fit in factory spot. I really wanted to get custom pods for them so they sit at a better angle but that type of fabrication is out of my skill level and shops wanted $250+ to make a set for me. ill pass for now..