I don't understand, I am lacking midbass - pictures inside

[way2sl0 10+ year member]

Obviously this was a budget install, but it worked. Problem is, most know a stock car has decent midbass, with no highs or lows pretty much. Well I got crystal clear highs now, plenty of lows with the RE (which is kind of sloppy to be honest, but loud) good midrange, but no midbass. There is also some seperation but that is to be expected running tweets in the pillars vs. combined with the midrange.

So the components are Energy 6.5's (Klipsch) and they are clear. I never got frequency response curves for them which ***** or else I could start by EQ'ing there.

The car has Dynamat extreme, about 50 sq ft. The doors are about 10, trunk 20, roof and panels the last 20.

Amp running the fronts is a Dual XPA4100 - I got it on ebay used for $30, and I figured 150w rms per side would give me some headroom for my front stage - well it didnt. I either expect too much in terms of volume, or have set something up wrong because it doesnt sound that good when turned up, not to mention the Signal to Noise is absolute **** with hissing and other garbage (my other amp didnt do it, the grounds are fine and all the wires run opposite sides of the car).

Either way the midbass just isn't there. Ive tried EQ'ing and adding, but it isnt helping. Im running the fronts crossed at between 70-80hz, and the sub at 80. I have also DTA'd the front stage (which did help) with the sub stage to help blend the bass a little more but yeah it is still not as good sounding as I would have liked it to be.

Pic 1 is my front door, with the tweets and mid's highlighted ( I installed tweets off-axis which I am kind of regretting at this point, I may switch them ).

Second pic here is of the drivers side. A little problem I also have is in green. The dome for the speedo/tach etc creates a big bulge which the tweets on the driver side echo right off of, and **** the imaging up even more, creating a problem.

Third pic is my rear deck setup. I took out my 6.5's in the rear and just left the holes and grilles in place to allow sub to pass through.

Finally the sub in the trunk. Looks ghetto, don't care since it functions fine. Should have probably gone with a larger port since this one makes some noise. It was my first box built alone anyways, and its 3.65cu ft @ 32 hz. (15 RE SRx)

Any advice or critique would be helpful, thanks.

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[Haunz 10+ year member]

How much signal voltage is the amp getting ? Using a line driver so they are getting 8v RMS will allow you to turn down the gains and will help with the signal to noise...

As far as the mids go, you could try adding some mass to the cones... otherwise I might try some different speakers...

 

[HemiCoupe 10+ year member]

Sloppy bass- That box is a little on the large side. Website says 3 cubes.

Lack of midbass- Make sure the tweeter attenuation is all the way down.

Hissing- Getting a better amp for the comps would probably help.

 

[Horsemanwill 10+ year member]

how are t he mids attached to the door and is the door properly sealed

 

[way2sl0 10+ year member]

-Signal voltage is 4V from KDC-HD942U

-Box is a little large for sure yes...I want to rebuild one around 1.5 cuft sealed into the spare tire well.....this will be a big project.

-Tweeter atten. is at -3db as of now per. I spent the last 2 hrs wrapping the panels the tweeters were connected to in matte black vinyl to hide the original mounting holes, then remounted them ON axis, with -3db. Midrange was never the problem, guitars and spoken word are VERY strong. Midbass I mean 80-160hz.

-I know the amp *****, thus why I explained the very poor 72db s/n

- Mids are in stock location on doors, mounted on a 10"x10" sheet of Dynamat xtreme. The doors have holes for sure, the biggest being around a foot by ten inches, but that is around a foot from the speaker mounting (right in the center of the door).

 

[Horsemanwill 10+ year member]

if the door isn't properly sealed that could cause one reason for the lack of midbass i wasn't able to see the 2nd and last picture.

 

[SubNit 10+ year member]

if the door isn't properly sealed that could cause one reason for the lack of midbass i wasn't able to see the 2nd and last picture.

This

You really expect a solid amount of midbass when your speaker is playing in an untreated door? You drunk?

 

[way2sl0 10+ year member]

Stock bass was better though is what I am saying, and it didn't even have any mat! Am I really to close every single hole?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Seal the doors up air tight.

 

[kmanian 5,000+ posts]

are the mids in phase?

 

[way2sl0 10+ year member]

How do I seal the doors when the outer panel uses about 5-10 hooks that are an inch a piece that are required to reinstall the panel? Also what do I seal the door with? my budget is gone and I am out of dynamat.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

How do I seal the doors when the outer panel uses about 5-10 hooks that are an inch a piece that are required to reinstall the panel? Also what do I seal the door with? my budget is gone and I am out of dynamat.

When I said air tight, I was exaggerating. You can never seal a door up 100% unless you dont have door handles etc.

I like to use thin pieces of plywood to seal large holes in doors, but rigid plastic or just about anything stiff and thin will work. Cut to shape and screwed to the door, it helps stiffen the panel while also helping decrease cancellation due to isolation of front and rear waves. Places where hooks or linkage passes through to the inner part of the door, you have to leave holes or sometimes slots, keeping them as small as possible.

 

[AVX Mike 10+ year member]

That appers to be a saturn so I will give you some advice from my experience with mine over the last 7 years I've been playing with it. Sub up port back will sound better and be louder. If you want high spl at comps don't dynamat the rear of the car. Pm me and I can explain why. Tweeters should be mounted on the a pillars very low. The doors in these cars ****. Aside from being made of plastic that is made to flex they are full of huge holes that will make it very hard to get good midbass. The way my doors are on the inside they are very hard to get into and dynamat. Kicks are the best way to go in any car but are almost a requirement in these cars. Yes it can be done without but once it's all said and done, it's easier and cheaper to just build kicks. On to your amp......no offense intended but.........Dual is a $hit brand. I can guarantee that it isn't giving you 150 watts a side. 75 watts is still probably a stretch. Aside from that it is cheaply made with cheap components and you'll have a hard time getting good sound out of it no matter what is on either side of it. Your speakers don't seem to be the problem as they are a decent set of components. Head looks good and obviously has substantial tuning ability. Tuning ability isn't a substitute for good equipment and proper speaker placement. With DTA available tweeter placement can be fixed some. Running active if possible would give you a better sound stage. I don't know if the kenwood can be run active or not. It wouldn't matter if the mids were out of phase or not since they aren't in the same enclosure or close enough to each other to matter. Reversing the phase on mids and tweets (you just have to play around) can help with staging and imaging while not affecting output.

So to put it simply.....either deaden the hell out of the doors and replace the Dual amp.......or build kicks and replace the Dual amp..........you may even want to try replacing the Dual amp and see what happens.

I hope that helps.

 

[way2sl0 10+ year member]

This helps alot thanks. TBH I do not want SPL (well bass SPL). I have the sub at like -15db now with the gains down and it is blending decent with the rest of the system at this point. Anything higher and it is just completely overpowering.

As for the amp, it is CEA-2006 rated, which is the only reason I got it. It does put out around 130-140 a side bridged (its a 4 channel im running 2). I had a early-mid 90's power acoustic 2 chan before which was "75 rms" a side and it wasn't as loud for sure. I know the amp *****, I don't plan on keeping it at all, its temp until I get working.

The HU can't be run active, so I guess that is out of the question. I reaimed the tweets as I said, and I just went out to wash the car and then give it a listen and the imaging is quite a bit better (why I went off-axis in the first place I don't know). As for the doors I guess I will have to do my best to seal them, but that are deadend pretty good now, and the door doesnt sound plastic when it shuts its quiet and heavy.

I guess another option is, running an 8" under the dash somehow on a seperate amp in like a 0.25-0.4cu ft enclosure?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I guess another option is, running an 8" under the dash somehow on a seperate amp in like a 0.25-0.4cu ft enclosure?

Not really, midbass is suppose to be in stereo, not mono.